Mike Pence said, well, as vice president, I was the president of the Senate. Separately, Mike Pence himself argued this sort of obscure constitutional provision called the Speech or Debate Clause, and that says that members of Congress cannot be subpoenaed by an outside entity about anything to do with their legislative work. And courts will almost always reject that in the context of a criminal grand jury subpoena, which this is. But he came in and said, no, I don't want my former vice president testifying, on the basis of executive privilege, meaning this was a conversation between me and him in office. Donald Trump objected sort of from the outside. There were actually two objections that were raised. ![]() So the Justice Department special counsel, Jack Smith, subpoenaed Mike Pence for his testimony. HONIG: So it may help understand that if we look at the legal arguments that were made here. So can you help me understand something? Without knowing the exact wording of the ruling, which remains sealed, as we said, can you clear this up? What is the judge saying Pence must talk about? And what is he saying he can refuse to talk about? This is a fascinating story, a first in some ways. Thanks for joining us.ĮLIE HONIG: Good to be with you. ![]() So what does this mean for the DOJ's investigation? Joining us now to help us understand this is former federal and state prosecutor Elie Honig. But in the ruling, which remained sealed, the judge reportedly also said Pence can decline questions related to January 6 itself. Pence must testify about conversations he had with former President Trump leading up to the attack on the Capitol. That's the ruling of a federal judge, according to multiple media reports. ![]() Former Vice President Mike Pence will have to testify to a grand jury in the Justice Department's ongoing probe of the January 6 attack.
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